Thursday, 5 May 2016

Ten places to eat in Manhattan (mostly vegetarian or pescetarian)

View from the Rainbow Room/BarSixtyFive, New York
It's really hard to do a 'best of' listicle about eating in Manhattan because most places are good. As fromager Tia Keenan said to me: 'You can eat so well in New York, you can eat a different meal, three times a day, for years without repeating the same restaurant.'
I ate a bit randomly, not following a structured route. There were three places I wanted to try before I got there: Dirt Candy, By Chloe and Dominic Ansell. Dirt Candy and By Chloe are both vegetarian/vegan restaurants and Dominic Ansell, well I wanted to try a cronut. The others I just sort of happened upon or was recommended.
Meatless cuisine is taken seriously in the states, unlike here.You have superb chefs and restaurants creating nose to tail vegetable dishes- for me a kind of culinary ecstasy.
One issue on this visit to Manhattan was how expensive it was to eat out. In previous years, New York restaurants have been very reasonably priced, but several factors listed below means that eating out in London is, by comparison, a bargain.

  • The disadvantageous exchange rate of the pound to the dollar 
  • The gentrification of Manhattan Island, for no grungy or down-at-heel areas remain
  • The ridiculous levels of tipping. You are tight-fisted if you only leave 10 to 15%. At a minimum 18% is expected and more commonly 20%. Along with the reported insults you get from staff if you don't leave a sufficient tip, the whole business becomes fraught. Eating out should not be this stressful.
  • Sales tax. In Manhattan it's 8.875%. (Although in the UK VAT, effectively the same thing, is 20% in restaurants so with our customary 10 to 15% tip, you are paying up to a 35% surcharge on a meal).

Another thing I noticed is that when you pay a bill, they arrive with their machine for your card, you punch in the numbers and they leave you a 'check'. You then fill in the amount of tip. I spent the first few days impatiently waiting for the waiter to return and collect the check. They don't, which I find disconcerting, after all they could write anything in that section, changing the numbers of the tip amount.

I think we should all be like the French and not tip at all. Food prices charged at restaurants should cover a living wage for employees.

Dirt Candy

Bloody Mary and red pepper doughnuts at Dirt Candy
Dirt Candy
Dirt Candy
Amanda Cohen of Dirt Candy
Oh my god this was just as good as I imagined, better even. And chef Amanda Cohen was waiting on tables! And people ordered her about as if she were an ordinary person! W the actual F! I wanted to scream at them 'How very dare you! Do you not know you are making a culinary genius clear your plate? You ignoramuses! Apologise at once.' But thanks to the presence of my much more sensible daughter, I manage to restrain myself.
I ordered the squash biscuits. Biscuits is the American word for scones - but biscuits are so much nicer- flakier, more buttery, imbuing a melt in the mouth divinity. I'm a convert. These were served with yellow pepper jam and pumpkin butter.
I also ordered savoury mini glazed red pepper flavoured doughnuts, corn French Toast, a 'greens' sandwich with crispy fried potatoes and an enormous spicy green Bloody Mary. Everything was AMAZING.
And then I met her and took a picture with her. I totally fan-girled over her. I want to be her. Ok, this is getting embarrassing.
I also love the fact that there is a no tipping policy, because Canadian Cohen pays her staff a living wage.

By Chloe

By Chloe
Fronted by the young and photogenic Chloe Coscarelli, this is a foray into vegan fast food that has succeeded very well. The menu is fun, quick, nutritional, flavoursome and cruelty-free! I had the guac burger, daughter had the mac and cheese and we shared the air-baked fries (which arrived a bit cold but were not bad for a low fat version); we both enjoyed it and would go back. I'd like to do something like this in London. 


Kajitsu kaiseki meal
Kajitsu specialises in Japanese Buddhist vegan 'shojin' cuisine, with a series of small artfully presented dishes in the kaiseki style. I've always wanted to try a Kaiseki restaurant and this wasn't too expensive at $95 per person for the 'Hana' meal comprising of eight courses.
At the beginning of the meal, the waiters display a basket of the raw seasonal ingredients that will be used in the meal, which in this case, represented spring. Then we were asked to choose a vessel from a tray of different porcelain cups, some of which are hundreds of years old, in which they poured sake. The method of serving the food is as important as the ingredients and cooking.
The restaurant is housed in a typical New York townhouse and we ate at a window table on the first floor. The atmosphere and furnishings are spartan and calm, service is deliberate and ritualistic.
A fascinating experience.


tacombi new york
Tacombi, New York
This beautifully designed Mexican restaurant on Bleeker isn't cheap but serves delicious food and drink. Hard alcohol can't be served because they are situated near to a church but I had a version of tequila, a fermented agave liqueur, in a cocktail. I ordered two types of tacos, fried fish and bean and sweet potato. The generous guacamole with totopos (fried tortilla chips to you) was terrific. It's probably a tourist trap but I'd recommend the food.

Barney Greengrass

Barney Greengrass, New York bagels
Barney Greengrass, New York bagels
This bagel restaurant, located on the upper west side a couple of blocks from Central Park, has been a New York stalwart since 1908. Now third generation Gary is manning the main till. It does classic New York style bagels: large, fluffy, chewy, savoury. They pride themselves on not toasting them 'they don't need it!'. Barney Greengrass is particularly known for their selection of smoked fish such as sable and Novia Scotia salmon.
Other bagel recommendations include Murray's (best actual bagels), Sadelles (long wait, fashionable, get the Smoked Fish Tower), Russ and Daughters and the Montreal style bagels at Black Seed. Read more about the difference between New York and Montreal bagels here.

Salvation Burger

Salvation Burger, New York
My recently widowed aunt took my cousin, my niece, my daughter to April Bloomfields' restaurant. They kindly gave us an entire booth and let us sit there all afternoon. The food was not bad: highlights include the shakes, the vege and fish burgers, the fries, the creamy buttermilk and poppy seed dressing on the green salad, but the ramen burger was frankly disgusting. That needs work, it is misconceived.  The fried apple pie, McDonalds style, didn't quite work. I would have preferred an actual McDonalds one. 

Dominic Ansell

S'more, Dominic Ansell, New York
Cookie shot, Dominic Ansell, New YorkReams have been written about social media star baker Dominic Ansell and his cronuts. I was game for doing the crack of dawn queue but having tried and failed to master the vagueries of the frustrating afternoon line for the 'cookie shot' (a cup made of cookie dough, filled with milk), I lost faith. I did try the much lauded frozen S'more (horrible) and the lacklustre croissant (my litmus test for a bakery is that their croissant should be superb, if they can't do that, they can't do anything). Maybe the cronut is life changing on a patisserie level, who knows? Not wasting several hours of my life to find out. I'll leave that to the mode-driven millenials for when they fall off the clean eating bandwagon. Disordered eating much?

Bar Sixtyfive at The Rainbow Room

Barsixtyfive New York
This is a very touristy thing to do in New York, but actually not too many tourists seem to know about it. Located at the top of the Rockefeller building, your coat is taken by the hat check girl before you ride the elevator up. The thing to do is to go at sunset: pearlescent sky scrapers and neon-lit buildings silhouetted against peachy skies. Have a glass of pink champagne and take some selfies. Wear nice clothes and book. Ditto for the restaurant which isn't cheap but has live music. 

La bonbonniere

La Bonbonniere, New York diner
Old style New York diner, full of characters and actors (both resting and famous). I loved it. Read more about the 'bonbon' as locals call it, here in my piece on nearby Jane hotel.

Cafe Gitane

cafe gitane, New York
This trendy cafe is apparently the original source of the avo-toast recipe which is now 'overcado' on Instagram. I've been eating avocado on toast for years and it'll never be over for me. How can two basic ingredients be a matter for fashion? I ate in the super trendy Jane hotel branch. The first time I thought it was expensive but then I realised the prices were the norm.
On the second visit, I was tapping away on my laptop vaguely aware of two ladies sitting at the next table when my daughter announced:
'Mum, you need to be friends with these women'. 
I started to eavesdrop on their conversation: they were funny, outrageous, crude, rude, loud, colourful and vibrant. When they talked, they sounded like American versions of me. So I introduced myself by repeating what my daughter had said. It turned out that they were professional body painters. They paint baby bumps, children's faces, makeup for films and TV. One gave me a little cock - a small plastic chicken, her calling card. I'd like to be painted nude by them, a vegetable, perhaps an artichoke: all spiky but with a tasty heart.
Blogger Widgets

Monday, 25 April 2016

Freezer tricks and tips

Fermenting, canning and preserving have come to the fore of culinary fashion. But we must not forget the time-saving use of a freezer as a pantry for the adventurous cook. 
Last year a book called 'Inside Chef's Fridges, Europe' by Parisian concierge Adrian Moore and photographer Carrie Solomon, was published.  They spent months visiting Michelin-starred chefs and photographing the insides of their fridge freezers. While it is fascinating to see what chefs keep in their fridges and freezers, the results are both intriguing and a relief. There are exotic ingredients but also the homely simple food that these chefs and their families actually eat. Alongside the whole fresh lobster, the squid ink and the homemade asparagus ice cream, there will be a pack of frozen peas. The appliance and the contents do seem to be representative of each chef's cooking style: Ottolenghi's (a Sub-zero ICBBI-36UFD) is stacked full of tiny jars with exotic ingredients, rather like his recipes, while Marco Pierre White has refurbished a grand and vintage wood and steel contraption.
Most of us use our freezer for the usual cook/chill meals, fish fingers and the lamented soon to be extinct Findus crispy pancakes but it is also a useful aid for stocking seasonal or hard-to-get ingredients. I love to cook authentic Asian food but do I really want to make a special trip to a special supermarket every time I want to make laksa? No. I keep the hard-to-get ingredients in my freezer.
Here is a guide to freezers and what to keep in them:

How long?

I tend to stick by the three month rule at which point food can degrade. 


It's important to label the contents and date accurately. I've had to throw out a mystery substance in an unlabelled box more than once.
Buy: Freezer pens (a Sharpie), masking tape, labelling materials.
Do: write on packages when they are empty, more legible on a flat surface.

Safety and maintenance:

  • Cool down any hot foods to room temperature before putting them in the freezer or fridge. Putting hot food in your freezer raises the temperature of other foods. 
  • The temperature of a freezer should be -18 C or 0ºF. 
  • Don't let ice build up on the walls over a centimetre or two.
  • Keep your freezer 2/3rds full at least. An empty freezer uses more electricity.
  • Even if your freezer is self defrosting, give it a clean every six months.


Plastic boxes are one of the banes of my life. Apart from the dangers of BPA, the health hazards of microwaving your leftovers in phthalates-producing plastic, here is a famous infographic about how you can never find the right-sized lid for the box. Lakeland have come out with colour coded boxes which in theory makes it easier, but I prefer the clip and lock style boxes. Some design genius needs to make them colour coded too. 
Plastic bags: You want thick plastic freezer bags with a leak-free (no yucky meat juices) easy-seal top. Double zipper heavy duty Ziploc bags are highly recommended. Vacuum bags that prevent freezer burn and oxidisation are also ideal.  There are biodegradable freezer bags but they aren't as strong. Flatten the food before storing -it takes up less space in the freezer and the greater surface area will defrost more quickly.
Ice Cube trays: These are perfect for freezing small portions of stock, zest, purées, herbs and garlic, you can make your own bouquet garni (olive oil/bay leaf/thyme/parsley) ice cubes. 
Glass: You can freeze glass bottles and jars but make sure 1) that the jar has a wide mouth 2) don't tighten lids too much 3) there is 3 cms (an inch) space at the top for any liquid to expand. Picking shards of glass out of ice is to be avoided. You could also store the glass jars in plastic bags which defeats the 'green' objective but means you won't have plastic toxins in your food.


Use the microwave or place in a container and thaw slowly in the fridge. Ice cream has a better consistency if thawed for half an hour in the fridge before serving, avoiding the problem of slushy around the edges and rock hard in the centre. You already know you aren't supposed to thaw things with hot water, don't you?


I keep a selection of roots in my freezer that I can grate or chop directly into dishes as and when.
  • horseradish and wasabi 
  • ginger
  • galangal
  • turmeric
  • lemon grass

Herbs and leaves: 

Delicate herbs can pose a problem because of freezer burn where the leaves turn black. Nevertheless, some herbs are usefully frozen.
  • Holy basil
  • Curry leaves
  • Coriander stems (for stock).
  • Lime leaves 
  • Vine leaves (freeze flat in bags then defrost with boiling water for dolmades)
  • Banana leaves (wrap around fish for cooking 'en papillote'. They are cheapest ready frozen in the Asian supermarket.
  • Seaweed (Fi Bird, algae expert and author of Seaweed in the Kitchen lives in the Outer Hebrides and often sends me bags of unusual seaweed, bright green sea lettuce or purple dulse to keep in my freezer; useful for crumbling into bread, oatcakes, rice or even on pasta)

Broth, soup and stock:

Broth and soups are a no brainer for the freezer. Although vegetable stock is not particularly intense in flavour and may not be worth the space, it is worthwhile freezing meat, shellfish and fish stock. You can even do it in tiny portions in ice cube trays.


I keep my expensive hand-chiselled pistachio nibs in the freezer, so they retain their intense green colour.

Flour: wholewheat flour tends to go rancid due to the oils is successfully kept in the freezer as is plain white flour if you live in a bug-prone warm climate.
Vanilla pods: those squishy Tahitian vanilla pods? Stop them from going hard by keeping them in your freezer.
Mastic: an unusual ingredient from the Greek island of Chios. I keep the fresh mastic 'tears'  in my freezer to keep their freshness and aroma.
Bleek roe: on a visit to Gothenburg fish market I was informed that you can freeze and refreeze all fish roe up to eight times safely. Seems all Swedish chefs know this.
Fresh pasta: gnocchi, ravioli and fettucini. Freeze flat on a tray, once frozen- tip into a freezer bag.


Citrus: blood oranges, Bergamots, Meyer lemons, Kaffir limes can be kept in your freezer to use all year round - juice the citrus and zest the outsides.

Berries: I get small amounts of gooseberries, blackberries, wild strawberries from my garden. I dump them in a plastic bag or box as I go along.
Large bags of mixed berries from the supermarket make instant sorbet if pulsed through a food processor or powerful blender.
Grapes: freeze whole. If I have run out of icecubes I'll use frozen berries and grapes as a replacement.
Persimmon: freeze ripe and whole. Eat with a teaspoon straight from the fruit.


Chillies: again I grow my own jalapeños: I smoke and dry some and freeze the rest. Small birds eye chillies are great for quick Thai or Malaysian meals.

Pea aubergines, wonderful in Thai green curry, as an occasional ingredient these are good candidates for the freezer.
Freeze handy portions of cooked beans but also fresh beans such as broad beans and edamame. 


This goes chewy when frozen, not to my taste, but the Chinese, being fans of 'texture' in their food, love to do this.

Baked goods: 

Having a small family, I'll only eat a portion of what I bake. Once you've got the oven on, you may as well bake bigger batches and freeze a proportion for future use.
  • Bread, cake, pies, brownies, scones, cinnamon buns, fruit crumbles.
  • Tortillas, flat breads, pittas. I make them from scratch, half bake them and keep in the freezer.
  • Pizza base. If making fresh, make extra, roll it out into a thin flat circle(s) separated with greaseproof paper and freeze. You can bake these from frozen, just add topping.
  • Bread crumbs and biscuit crumbs: for gratin or for cheesecake bases. 


Hard cheese can be grated and frozen in bags to be sprinkled on bakes or in soups. I've also made convenient freezer 'fondue kits' by grating emmental and gruyere into bags. 200g of each would make a quick fondue for four.
Egg whites, mark how many on the bag. Defrost and use in meringues.


If first cooled in the fridge to avoid temperature shocks, can then be transferred to the freezer. Ditto when defrosting, first bring it to room temperature in the fridge. I avow to liking a frozen Mars bar: instant chocolate popsicle.


Vodka, gin, tequila keep in the freezer as well as shot glasses which are instantly and stylishly 'frosted'. 
Liqueurs such as Limoncello and Chartreuse keep well in the freezer. 
Nigella famously admitted to tipping unfinished glasses of good wine into freezer bags for use in stews and sauces. 

To save money:

Buy large catering cans of coconut milk, open and pour into small ziplock bags.

Basic tomato sauce: make a big batch and divide into plastic containers.

Non food:

One of the best ways to kill moth larvae in clothes is putting your woollens and silks (in plastic bags) in the freezer. My mother did this and it worked, they emerged moth-free, dry but cold. 
Tights are less likely to get ladders if you wet them and freeze them before the first wear.
A few saucers for checking on jam setting point.
Candles last longer if kept in the freezer a day before using.

What do you keep in your freezer? Do you have any tips? 

Monday, 18 April 2016

Meet Tia Keenan, the cheese queen of Queens

Tia Keenan, fromager, author, New York

I first met Tia Keenan on my last trip to New York in 2011. We met in the lobby at the Ace Hotel and immediately hit it off. Her particular speciality is cheese - she was the fromager for high end restaurants in New York and created Casellula, a ground-breaking cheese and wine restaurant. Tia pairs cheese with unusual flavours, and creates things like cheese sushi.

In the five years since we met, her life has changed drastically: she now lives in a light and airy house in Queens with her husband Hristo Zisovski, the chef sommelier and wine buyer for a host of top Manhattan restaurants, and they have a beautiful son, Sterio.  
Tia wrote to me to describe her forthcoming first book 'The Art of the Cheese Plate' (Rizzoli, September 2016):
I wanted this book to reflect the spirit that I have always brought to cheese: playful, sexy, whimsical, a little irreverent, but backed up by solid knowledge. 
She added that she wanted the book:
To look really different from many other cheese books, which I think of as kind of visually lazy, you know, relying on the aesthetic cliché of county life: the distressed wood, the casually strewn antique knives, the rose-coloured romance of some Provencal farmhouse or something. 
I arranged the entries by season and by "weight", so we start out with lighter themes and visuals and end with darker, heavier, more aggressive themes and visuals as we progress through the flights in the book.  I don't state this anywhere in the book but that's what I did.  Again, I hope the reader gets the "feeling" of that.  I don't want or need to spell it out. 

I wanted to make something that only I could've made but that is ultimately totally user-friendly and relatable. I want this to be a joyful object for whoever owns it. 

We sat down on a Sunday afternoon at her beautiful house in Queens with a couple of good bottles of wine and a few cheeses and discussed motherhood, pregnancy, taste, politics, Western medicine, the restaurant industry, sexism, well just about everything. 
Talking the difficulties of describing flavour, Tia is inspired by a book The Elements of Taste, which makes a concerted effort to define taste, depicting 'push' and 'pull' elements, along with 'punctuating' flavours and a series of 'platform' tastes such as oceanic, garden, meaty, starchy. Eventually this is the route that Tia would like to go down:
But a book like that would take ten years and it'd kill me.
How do you develop a palate?
Exercise it! By tasting, by tasting, by tasting. By consciously tasting. People aren't mindful. What does this feel like, what does it smell like?
Like a taste gym?  
Now I'm not working in the restaurant, my palate isn't getting as much practice. Also getting older affects it.
Our palates aren't the same during or after pregnancy.   
I had gestational diabetes during my pregnancy. I couldn't eat sugar or carbs. I could only eat protein, cauliflower and brassicas. 
As a result her son loves brassicas, pleading for kale and brussel sprouts in the same way that other kids want spaghetti hoops or sweets. (Bee Wilson goes into this subject in her latest book 'First Bite, how we learn to eat'.)

What was your first food job?
I was a waiter.
Tia brings three cheeses to the table, a loaf of dark bread. Any particular cheese we should start with here?
I like washed rind, pungent cheeses. These are three of the same style. This is an American cheese, Grayson.  My friend in upstate New York makes this one, Juvindale. And lastly we have a Portuguese sheep cheese that I have leftover from a photo shoot. So we have cow, cow, sheep.
You started as a waitperson. You saw different aspects of the restaurant industry?
I worked at Tribeca Grill. Because I'd been working in publishing, I showed up to this interview in a suit, a nice suit, Dolce & Gabbana. So they hired me, because they were like, “who shows up to a waiter interview in a D &G suit?”. At that time in restaurants nobody wanted to do the cheese cart. The chef ordered the cheeses but didn't have time to do much else, the pastry chef didn't want to do it. The waiters would serve it but that's all. Nobody wanted to take ownership of it. It was a mess. So I said, 'I'll do it'.
So every restaurant I worked at, they'd say, “does anyone know anything about cheese?” and I'd say yeah I know something about cheese.
Then I heard Danny Meyer was opening a restaurant at the Museum of Modern Art. I was a manager at that point in my career, so I went to an interview for MOMA and the guy interviewing me said, 'We don't have any female captains in the formal dining room. We know you are over-qualified but we'd really like to have a woman on the team. We are trying to be inclusive...' (Tia rolls her eyes, we laugh.) 'This is our type of feminism... we are demoting you! I turned that cart into one of the most respected fine dining cheese programs in the city. That opportunity – to work for Danny, at MOMA, to build and shape an amazing cheese program, it was really great timing and such a gift. It coincided with this amazing time in American cheese. This is the conversation I used to have when I talked about the cheese cart:

'You have American cheese?
'Yes, there are some really fine American cheeses.'
'I would never eat American cheese, it's garbage, the best cheeses are from France.'
That was where we were at. Americans didn't even know we made cheese in this country. So I did that for a couple of years. Then I had the opportunity to open a small cheese and wine bar.  So I quit my fancy job and went for it.  Looking back I had some pretty grandiose plans.  I wanted to reinvent the cheese course – what it looked like, where it was served, who was serving it, who was eating it.  Everything, really.
What kind of things did you introduce into your cheese programme?
I was completely obsessive and particular. I was really hardcore about it. I was training the staff. None of this was happening at that time. I was caring for the cart, like I was taking it really seriously and there was no one doing that. It was intense. But I was rolling that cart around every day and talking to hundreds of people. I knew what I could do. I knew what people would be interested in. I knew how far I could push the eating public. I felt the culture around me changing. At the Modern, the cheese course was on the 150 dollar tasting menu, the chef just trusted me, let me do my thing. He never asked to approve anything. It was really clear to me what I wanted to do. I had a vision. I was so focused about what I wanted to execute. Everyone around me was like “No! That's not gonna work.” (Smiles) But once I put my work in a casual setting, it was immediately successful. It was packed from the very first day.
What sort of things did you innovate?
We did the cheese super casual. We created the cheese boards in front of people, like an open kitchen. Each cheese got its own condiment. The condiments were from Asia, the deep south, from Spain, from every cuisine, from the ethnic markets where I lived in Jackson Heights, Queens. The way I talked about it, the language I used. People challenged me: “But what are people going to eat for dinner?” And I was like, they’re going to have cheese plates!”  This was pretty unheard of.
There are still no restaurants like that in London, except La Fromagerie.
What do you think is happening with American cheese right now?
You can have no discussion about American cheese without understanding the absolute mess that the American food system is. Federal policy subsides and favors industrial agriculture. There is little support for medium and small scale production farming. Almost none. The entire infrastructure of American food does not help small and even medium scale farming. So you've got a federal government that pays for corn, soy, all that. You've got an infrastructure to move that type of product through the chain and you've got small and medium scale farmers just trying to survive. The family farmer is gone, the Norman Rockwell farmer. The loss of the small & mid-scale farmer is where the American artisanal cheese movement started. It used to be that you could have 150 dairy cows, you could milk those cows, you could sell that milk on the commodity markets and make a living. Then the commodity market bottomed out. The costs of production units sky-rocketed. The amount it costs to feed, water, house your cows is more than you can earn for the milk. You have thousands of farms going under. You have farmers ageing out of that system. Their children don't take over, because they don't want to live in poverty. You have farmers that haven't aged out, but who are forced to sell and who have to enter the workplace. So you get the 50 year old guy, working at Walmart, who was brought up in a farm and farmed for most of his children's lives. He sold the land and ekes out a living at Walmart.  That’s the reality of rural America.  It’s been left to languish in poverty.  
And then you get the people who say lets make a value added product such as cheese.But that's not an easy road. A small segment of the farming population hooked up with people who were inspired on a culinary level. The story of American artisanal cheese was the culinary seduction of young American women. The story of young American women who went to France and ate amazing cheese and came back to America in the 70’s and 80’s and said why can't I get nice cheese here? I'm gonna get five goats and make cheese in my kitchen.It started with goats because they are easy to care for. They are small. Goats have always been women's animals.* One cow, you got enough milk for your family. The wife, the mother, took care of the family cow. Herds of cows- that wasn't women's work. Women kept goats. They were small and ate everything. So they were easier to feed. Goats don't need the massive amount of land that a cow needs. All over the world, in traditional agricultural societies, goats are still women's animals. You don't have to graze them the way you do sheep and cows. So you had these middle-class women, who didn't grow up on farms, who were exposed to the culinary wonder of cheese, and who came into cheese that way.  
And you had the small percentage of farmers who were so stubborn and didn't want to give up their farms, saying: What can I make? Milk isn't enough anymore - I have to make something else. And then that's also connected to the movement and growth of farmers' markets. Realising that the farmer now is really a speciality farmer. Much of the commodity stuff are made in giant agri-business 'farms'. They don't look like farms. They don't resemble the farms of our grandparents. 
This is the 80’s and 90’s. While Willie Nelson is doing FarmAid, they are singing sad songs, nobly so, about the loss of the American farmer. You have these small pockets of people making cheese. That's when we started to lay the foundations for American cheese renaissance. 
Where was this happening? 
Vermont, California, little random places here and there.
Have any of those small cheese companies become successful now?
Yes. Cypress Grove, Vermont Butter & Cheese, these were started by women cheese makers, and now they’re established American artisan cheese companies. But it’s hard. The regulatory bodies of the government have little understanding or respect for real food or traditional foodways. But they decide what happens with food in this country. They’re equipped to assess large factories and industrially produced goods. They don't know what to think when they walk onto a farmstead cheese production. It's been very hard for American cheese, especially raw milk cheese.
Is it still illegal here? Raw milk?
You can have raw milk cheese if it's aged over 60 days but it’s constantly under threat. The FDA is so much more strict about what is imported to this country. European cheeses that I used to have access to were much better than they are now. But that gives an opportunity to American cheeses. I wish that was something deliberate on the part of our government, in the form of tariffs or trade protection, so that American cheeses can compete with European cheeses.  But really the FDA is just bumbling their handling of importation. It's kind of a backdoor way for American cheeses to have a fighting chance, but that's how it happened. There is no food policy in this country that isn't about favouring big business.
We can't get American cheeses in Europe. We can't get Monterey Jack in the UK.
That's mostly Europe's fault. Europe is protecting their own dairy farmers, which I think is wise.  Why should they have to compete with Kraft?  They can’t.  Governments need to protect their traditional foodways.
I say this bread is wonderful. It's like caramelised. (The bread was made by a baker friend of Tia's, Zachary Golper of Bien Cuit Bakery in Brooklyn, who made all the bread for The Art of the Cheese Plate.)
Last time we met we talked about women in food. It was you that told me that women get a lot less backing than men to start new businesses.
That's the context of when I wrote (chef) Amanda Cohen a fan letter. I felt like she was the only female chef that ever spoke honestly about the climate for women in the food world. I sent her an email saying I really admire and respect you because the discourse on this is pathetic. I know there's been a backlash. I do think she has suffered for being... (the implication was an outspoken woman)
I don't know why she's not much much more famous.
That's why! Everyone wants to say: there aren't women chefs because you can't have kids and be in the kitchen. That's a fair assessment. It's very difficult if you have a kid to also run a kitchen. They say women don't like the culture, that it's sexist. That’s true, but I don't think that's the problem. I think we have a means of production problem. Men are 99% of the investors in restaurants and men do not invest money in women. Not just restaurants. Any business. All those other things, despite how hard it is, despite how shitty it is, how hot and hostile it is, there are women who want to do it. It's shitty, it's hard, it's hot, I don't see my kid, but they would still kill for a restaurant. Men don't invest in women. They don't. They invest in other men. And that's how they keep everything to themselves. It's about owning the means of production. The problem is capital. We would rather talk about how hard it is on women than talk about men doing the right thing.
Tom Kerridge, do you know who he is?
Yeah, he's the guy that said all that stupid shit. It's a British tradition for male chefs to be inflammatory, sort of school-boy. Men here don't talk like that. They hide their privilege. 
Most chefs aren't very well educated. I mean Tom Kerridge, I'm sure he's very clever but... He's now presenting loads of BBC cooking shows.
Why are they giving him work?
He's one of the most popular. He does pub food. He's a lad. He also was hugely fat. I'm not talking a bit round, he was obese. You just felt looking at him that he was literally going to die of a heart attack on screen. It was that bad, he was panting. Me and my girlfriends in food were saying no woman who looked like that would ever get a show.
You have to be FABULOUS looking to get a show, if you are a woman.
I never knew food was like this.
Every industry is like this.
It feels like it's gotten worse.
Because there's a lot of money to be made. It's a major form of entertainment now. Can we talk about the British Baking show?
We talk about Mary Berry and Bake Off. I repeat the joke by Tina Fey and Amy Poehler 'that there are still great parts in Hollywood for Meryl Streeps over 60'. There's only broadcasting jobs in food for Mary Berrys over 60. The only people who are allowed to be on TV if they are older and female are thin. Mary Berry is very, very thin.
She's very Julie Andrews.
Plans for the future?
I'd love to make a writing life. I'd like to write more books. Now I have my son, he's my number one. He's my first consideration. I've been pleasantly surprised by being able to do that. I do have a journalism degree but it took me 20 years in the restaurant business to become a writer.
I feel like food is the new rock n roll but actually I feel like the energy has moved past that.
I think food has jumped the shark.
Totally.  It’s very mainstream now, and less interesting in some ways.
Tia Keenan, fromager, author, New York
We poured wine 'cheers', and Tia talked about getting ill while working in restaurants. Five years ago when we met you were trying to set up another restaurant. You'd been sick, you'd walked away from your restaurant, but you still thought you could do it again?
Yeah. I was doing consulting work for a big corporate client, and really enjoying it. I thought to myself, “Why am I trying to do the same fucked up thing again?”. I started looking at patterns in my life and realized I didn’t want to open another restaurant for myself. I was exhausted all the time, I was freezing cold all the time. I had searing headaches. My body stopped. My hands wouldn't work. I remember getting off the subway once and sitting on the curb, being two blocks from work and I couldn't move. I thought, 'there's something really wrong with me'. But when you're in the restaurant business you are always tired anyway. Hristo was the first one to say there's something wrong (beyond the usual tiredness). 
And you were how old?
30. I went to the doctor and said I need an HIV test. Test me for cancer or AIDS. I got super lucky because my doctor happened to give me the Epstein Barr test. He got the test results back: 'You’re right, you really are sick. Based on the anti-bodies in your blood stream, you've had Epstein Barr for a year and I can't believe it's taken you this long to get to me.' It's a virus - 90% of adults will get Epstein Barr at some point in their lives, but your body fights it and you never get sick. But if your immune system is suppressed, you get it and it can become chronic. It's like an extreme version of mononucleosis.
What's the cure?
The doctor said, 'It’s a virus and there’s no cure.  Try to get more sleep.' And I was like, 'what do you mean try to get more sleep? I can't function. I feel like I'm dying.' But typical of Western medicine, he said, 'There's nothing we can do for you' – he had no idea how to approach a whole body disease. So I went to see an herbalist/acupuncturist, who I still see to this day, who said, 'You give me a year, you do everything I say and you will get better.' At the same time my mum was sick with MS and there is a connection between Epstein Barr and MS. Everyone who has had MS has had Epstein Barr. I went on an extreme holistic cure. I did herbs, acupuncture. I ate no wheat, no dairy, no sugar, no alcohol for a year and a half. I drank half a cup of raw apple cider vinegar every day. At that time I was a compulsive exerciser, one to two hours a day. He said no more exercise. He put me on a sleep diet, you have to sleep the equivalent of 70 hours a week. I said, 'I don't have the time to do that'. That's OK, you do what you can during the week and then on Sunday you stay in bed all day. He put me on sleep exercise. He cured me.
We laugh at the absurdity of a sleep diet. Modern society rewards bipolar 'up' behaviour, I remark. It rewards obsessional drive and extreme hard work.
If you are a sociopath, or a psychopath you get to become president. All of the candidates are sociopaths or psychopaths. Even Hillary. Probably Bernie is the only and even him, I have to question the mental health of anybody who is a lifetime politician. And the restaurant industry rewards that behaviour.Then my mum died.
What of?
How long did she have MS for?
20 years.
Tia pauses and clarifies:
She didn't really have MS. It's a syndrome. There's no blood test.
Isn't there? I'm shocked.
No. She didn't really have MS, she had some sort of auto-immune disease. My mother had cancer three times. She had scarlet fever. She was not a healthy person her whole life. She also had mental illness. On her death certificate, she died of a heart attack. My mother died with no intestine, no breasts, no joints in any of her feet, several joints gone, no gall bladder. My mother was a medical... by the time she died... there was nothing left. She was pickled, stewed, screwed and stitched. Because Western medicine doesn't know how to deal with a whole body disease. They were treating one thing at a time. So what did she die from? I dunno. Drugs, disease, MS. We could name 10 things that killed her. So that was a huge time in my life.
When did you meet Hristo?
My father died in 2004, my first husband died in 2006, I met Hristo in 2007, my mother died in 2009. I opened the restaurant as a way to not fall apart from all of that. My husband died '06, my restaurant opened Spring '07. The restaurant was the way I kept myself alive. I just wanted to disappear. I was so heart broken. Then I met Hristo. I didn't find Hristo attractive at first. I thought he was just another guy, asking for my number. But he had patience, an inner fortitude like, 'Ok I'll wait for you'. He never pushed me. He was courting me and I didn’t even realize it until I’d fallen in love.
That's so sweet. 

After this we had a companionable snooze on respective sofas. It was the perfect Sunday afternoon, even though Tia felt a little guilty - 'normally I'm cleaning the house on Sunday'.

Tia Keenan, fromager, author, New York
*Background reading: Kirstin Jackson talks about small cheese producers, how goats are women's animals, in 'It's not you, it's Brie: Unwrapping America's Unique Culture of Cheese' (Perigee Books 2012).